More about WWWH

Thursday, April 16, 2015
I'm feeling a little rushed today, so I'm sorry for this hastily thrown together post. Hopefully, it will be interesting to someone.

There's a lot of water in this place. And a lot of waterS.

For those of you who believe any tense of the words "warm waters halt," can be used to interpret the phrase that has stumped most everyone at one time or another, I'll present some more potential meanings. I'm sorry if I blow any "secrets" out of the water, but none or maybe one of these could be my interpretation. Some of these have been discussed so often we think our stomachs will heave up our lunch if we hear it one more time. I hope for your sake, your stomachs can handle this post. Lol.


1. Where warm waters halt is the continental divide. It makes sense, and it could be, but the continental divide is a very big deal, and pretty much runs the entire way through the mountains in all four states. Maybe the exact spot is revealed in the other 8 clues...

Woo whee, that's a long line...

2. Where warm waters halt is the place warm waters furthest north as defined in a fisherman's NM map of warm and cold waters.


3. Where warm waters halt is the Armstrong Limit. I liked this one, because Forrest said that blood will bubble in the body at about 50,000 feet altitude (see My War for Me in TTOTC). What is the Armstrong Limit? Well, it's an imaginary line about 12 miles up, between 62,000 and 63,500 feet altitude. It's the line where the atmospheric pressure is so low that water will boil at normal human body temperature (98.6 F). Maybe Forrest mentions 50,000 feet for a reason. I don't know, but it's interesting to note that 50,000 feet is about 9.5 miles. And 9 is a number many searchers think is important.

I imagine this is an unforgettable experience...

4. Where warm waters halt is a hot spring. I don't think so, but it's one of those stomach churning theories out there.

What's more interesting to me is the white stuff around the spring... :)

5. Where warm waters halt refers to tears. I personally don't think so, but it could be the eye. Forrest said that it'd been a half century since a particular war and no one was crying anymore. Dry eyes--where warm waters halt. I find the half century part interesting, because that's 50 years, and 50 is a number that I think could be important.


6. Where warm waters halt is spring. I like this theory, too. It's when the snowmelt brings cold water down from the mountains.

Snowmelt is like steak to waterfalls...it feeds them...

7. Where warm waters halt is the confluence of two or more rivers. That very well could be. There are a few possible places this could be.

Some people think it's here...

8. Where warm waters halt is birth. I like this too, because it implies more than just the process, it implies an emptiness of leaving the safety of your mother. It implies leaving the warmth of your mother's womb and entering a cold, unforgiving world. For some animals, like sea turtles, it means leaving the safety of the sand to a probability of soon becoming another animal's meal.

He's obviously not happy about this...

9. Where warm waters halt is the mouth. Old Biddies seem to support this theory. Like the Bible says, "out of the mouth proceeds all kinds of evil.." Could be.

If only our words took visible form...maybe the world would be warmer.

10. Where warm waters halt refers to urination. I sorta doubt it. But who knows? Maybe an outhouse is where you start. Forrest said that the treasure wasn't in an outhouse, but he didn't say that it wasn't the place you start.


Those are just ten of the many, many theories out there. I can think of several more, but for the sake of brevity, I'll stop there. I think all of these have been mentioned before, but maybe for someone, it's a new idea. 

29 comments:

  1. Anonymous said...:

    Very interesting Mindy.
    Can I ask where you got the picture of the confluence of rivers? Is that an actual photo of the spot, or a random pic you have just tagged.
    Thanks in advance.

    Danny-boy

  1. Hi Mindy,

    Great post on WWWH. I've been in the chase almost from the very beginning. I've cycled through most of the ideas you posted and a few more. I've come up with a formula for determining if a potential WWWH is worthy of consideration. Let me run it past you and see what you think of it.

    Starting with the less ambiguous aspects first, Forrest says "Waters." So whatever WWWH is, it must be plural. Singular things are discarded. "Water" should be involved somehow. There are those who claim there is no actual water involved, and I can see possibilities in that direction, but deep down I feel he really meant water. So for now I discard possibilities not involving actual water. "Halt" seems like a straight-forward word, but it actually has several possible meanings. Which one does Forrest mean? For now I am going with "a temporary stop," but keeping my mind open to other possibilities. Now it really starts getting tricky "Warm" has a lot of possible meanings, from temperature to colour to emotions and so on. Plus it can be either an adjective or a verb. "Warm" is by far the hardest word to figure out the correct meaning of. For now I am not excluding any possibilities and keeping my mind open to all "warm" possibilities. A potential WWWH must be "warm" in some way.

    So where does that get me if I apply these thoughts to some of the items on your list?

    The Continental Divide isn't plural. It also isn't a place where things halt. It is a place where things begin. It isn't warm by any common definition. Water is involved, but that is really all it has going for it. So I don't really see it as a serious possibility.

    A single hot spring isn't plural. A group of hot springs is a better fit. Water is involved. Warm temperatures are involved. However, springs are a source of water, a place where it bursts forth from the ground. It is not a place where waters halt. So like you, I do not find this a compelling solution.

    Warm waters in the fishing sense would seem to have a lot going for it as a solution. There is water involved. There is warmth involved. It is plural. The problem is finding a place where they halt. As far as I can tell, They don't actually halt anywhere. Warm waters and cold waters in the fishing sense can be found all over the search area. I also can't see any way to apply any of the less common meanings of "halt" to warm fishing waters. So I do not feel this is a contender.

    A confluence of rivers, such as where the Firehole enters the Madison, or the Red River enters the Rio Grande is a compelling idea. Water is present. Warmth of a type is present. The warm name ends or halts where the smaller river enters the larger. However, neither example is plural. For that reason I do not find it a compelling solution.

    I have found a few possibilities that do pass muster on all four points using this formula. Forgive me If I don't spell them out for you. You are too intelligent and too willing to go searching even in the worst weather for me to give you my best material. However, I don't mind sharing the process by which I found my possibilities. Sorry this is so long. Let me know your thoughts.

    Mike

  1. Mindy said...:

    Danny, I'm not sure where I found that pic, but more than likely off of Google images. Sorry I don't know the exact location.

  1. Mindy said...:

    Mike, I don't post my best ideas here, either. All are good ideas and I can't discount any of them at this point. :)

  1. Do you use a process of elimination like mine to narrow down the possibilities, or do you operate on a more intuitive level? Until it is found, it's hard to say which is a better approach.

    Mike

  1. in the village of warm waters halt the peasants are blind and the one eyed man is king

  1. Are you dropping a hint to your WWWH, Chris?

  1. oops yes, i appear to have dropped that. let me pick it back up.

  1. Mindy said...:

    Mike, I think I use both. There is one example of WWWH that I didn't list on here, and it's where I'm leaning. It may be similar to Chris's, but it appears that Chris and I are searching different states. I'm keeping my mind open, though, as I learn more every day. I still think there are possibly four possibilities of WWWH. I am honing in on a spot, but am still working on a couple pieces of the poem before i announce anything with any confidence.

  1. Moving with confidence is one thing. Announcing with confidence is quite another. I've seen a lot of people over the years announce with confidence that they have it all figured out, only to have to eat crow later. I'm the sort who gets quieter as I get more confident about a location, both to keep from spilling the beans to potential rivals, and to avoid possibly having to eat crow later.

    Mike

  1. Mindy said...:

    Actually, Mike, you're right. I've announced with confidence before, and regretted it. I know I will never again say I'm 100% until I have the chest in my hands. I'm 100% sure of that. Lol. :)

  1. Chris,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Country_of_the_Blind

  1. Mindy said...:

    Chris, are you in any way referencing the mirror image?

  1. i am referencing something from the secret leaf

  1. Mindy said...:

    Chris, you know I will figure it out. I'm off work now, so now I can look into this mumbo jumbo of which you speak. :)

  1. I may know what Chris is referencing, or maybe not. He is quite fluent in mumbo jumbo, but it is often deep and meaningful mumbo jumbo.

    Mike

  1. Mindy said...:

    Mike,

    I also think WWWH could be a place where acids and bases neutralize each other. Or it could mean poverty (no hot showers). Or it could mean salt water, because waters can be defined as salt water.

  1. I think it is something simple. So simple we overlook it. We all tend to over-complicate things. I also notice that a lot of people's ideas for WWWH are actually places where warm waters begin. Even if they have the right general idea, I'm certain they are starting their searches in the wrong places.

    Mike

  1. the connection between WWH and poverty is this

    those who guess at WWH will have thin wallets. borrowing from FF there

  1. Mindy said...:

    I remember that now, Chris. So that sort of hints to me that it may be "poverty" where warm waters halt.

  1. To me it means guessing won't get you anywhere. You need to actually solve the riddle or you are wasting your money by searching. That is why I am certain there are one or two clues in the first stanza. Recognizing them is the only way we will ever correctly solve WWWH.

  1. I'm pretty sure WWWH needs to be solved correctly to get to the treasure. A lot of people seem to assume it is the first clue of the nine that need to be solved. What if it isn't the first? Even Forrest said there are a lot of WWWHs in the Rockies. He had to have narrowed it down for us somehow. The first stanza must hold the key. What word stands out in it? There are a few good candidates, but for me, "alone" really jumps out. It goes without saying that he was alone when he hid the treasure. There's no need to tell us that. If there really are no wasted words in the poem, then maybe "alone" could mean something else.

  1. originally F may have had a partner and wrote the poem saying "As I have gone in with a friend .."

    but when they were hiking in a large heavy rock fell on top of his friend, and f was like, uh scratch that, "As I have gone alone ..."


  1. Anonymous said...:

    Chris, that is just all sorts of horrible but it made me laugh... I think :)
    Spallies

  1. Unknown said...:

    Your all looking in thw wrong places there r more then enough clues he didnt say outside the rocky moutains he meant inside the rocky moutains meaning one state one spot inpeticular in the rocky moutains some things he spelt wrong those words r clues which r ciphers to the clues i had to put together and other clues led.me.to one spot and one location which would be rude if i gave that spot away

  1. Anonymous said...:

    6889.76378 feet elevation is the snowline of 40' latitude of Rocky Mountains.

  1. Michael said...:

    I think its about eight feet under water.

  1. Unknown said...:

    WWWH is Crow Heart, WY is a fly fishing spot marked on FFs map
    lostowl

  1. It is my humble opinion that you take the words in the poem to have meaning which is too literal... "Where warm waters" is the only alliteration in the poem...Significant? WWW... Could it be that Fenn is directing us to BEGIN it (I.T.?) by searching
    on the World Wide Web? Halt meaning fullstop? WWW. Afterall, he intended global interest and profile? N'est ce pas???

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